An opposing editorial on the Camaro's possible fate.
Damn, long read....but I kinda agree with him...little to late for the Camaro.
not the best timing for the return but I still see it as a success
Just hope that there will be plenty v6s and maybe even 4cyl camaro's on the road to keep the name alive. Leave the V8s to us hardcore folks
Very factual. I thought of this a while back as well. Especially since the introduction of the CAFE law. Also, it added to its fate when GM decided to make so many alterations to the car. Not calling it a 'muscle car', making a V6, then making a 4-cylinder to almost match the power of the V6, then with the half-engine shut-off at cruise speed...and so on.
The longer it takes for the car to reach production, the more crap they throw at it. Also, the longer it takes, the closer we get to the new approaching laws...
GM's in a pickle. Stuck between themselves and the law. None of which are getting any better.
There was also never really any big or serious plan about a next-gen GTO. It was just far too costly to continue it in the first place, much less reproduce it. Especially not now, anyway.
Just some dreamers fantasy over at the GM facility.
If anything, the V8 sells will last about as long as the entire lifespan of the GTO. About 2 1/2 years here in America. But a continuance?
I don't foresee that happening.
I hope they go threw with the launch date because the Camaro is just SICK and dumping it is just unacceptable haha
I AGREE, THE MORE WE WAIT, THE LESS IT WILL SELL DUE TO GAS PRICES.
It wont be as bad as this guy says as long as people are willing to buy huge suv's that get 12 mpg the camaro has a good shot. yeah gas is getting more expensive but we are far from the end of the performance car craze. Youl just see a lot more economy cars to offset the averages the camaro will be back
What kind of anti-Camaro goof is this guy?
Narrow-minded much?
If he's so right, then Ford should stop building the Mustang, Dodge should never build any Challengers, and every carmaker on the planet should stop building full-size trucks and SUVs.
Reality says that's not gonna happen anytime soon.
id rather see the camaro name die than see another iron duke (firebird but same thing) hit the road.
Like I said, duh the 2009 camaro is dead....there is no 2009 camaro.
what i don't get is that they still build lamborghini's and ferraris that get even worse gas mileage and cost a ton more but you don't see them stopping. Or Jeeps, jeeps get terrible gas mileage for how light they are don't hear anything on them. If i had the money i would buy one no questions asked.
Have you ever seen a bum without a cigarette? Most bums have no money but they somehow manage to get smokes. The same goes for people and their cars. No matter what the cost, people will find a way to buy gas to put in their cars.
Gasoline is like crack and the petroleum companies are the dealers.
that whole article is completely ridiculous. like octane said, it is astonishingly one sided. first lets take a look at CAFE standards-that's an average of the companies vehicles. the v8 camaro doesn't need to get 35mpg. cobalt, aveo, hybrid malibu, the upcoming volt, and others will counter balance alot of the less efficient vehicles.
as far as "income stagnation" is concerned, minimum wage is set to increase almost two dollars in the next 14 months. granted those making minimum wage are not buyin top of the line camaros, but income is not as stagnant as the author wants to make it seem.
i don't know about the rest of you, but i never considered a mustang gt to be of similar power, but lets not forget that the stang only has 5 gears, and that extra gear can make a big different. driving at 65 in 6th gear from richfield to st. george i averaged 34.87 mpg in my 99 SS, and yes Mr. Peters, that had a v8 in it. The new camaro will have 6 gears too, and may even have AFM or some other form of cylinder deactivation.
so if I am not mistaken, GM can't afford to invest in something that isn't a sure thing, right Eric? well, don't you think that they have put quite a bit into it so far and pulling out now would be even more foolish? That is the only way to GARAUNTEE that the investment is not profitable.
and to touch on the gas mileage issue once more, this guy is an automotive columnist that apparently doesn't care to stay in the know. Holden is considering making the commodore "green" (you know the vehicle that is based on the zeta platform, the same platform as the g8 and the new camaro--yea that means that chevy didn't just say "hey lets develop a brand new platform for this one car." that means that camaro sales are not the only ones that vindicate gm's investment in the platform) Holden is considering 4 cylinder, diesel and turbo applications for the commodore which means that the g8 and camaro would be susceptible to the same treatments.
lastly "GM no longer has a sure bet buyer base" are you kidding me? a good portion of that buyer base (including myself) are reading your words and asking ourselves "is this guy just ignorant or is he looking for attention?" the vast majority of the vehicles on our roadways are affected by the same factors you just pointed out, but you underestimate the american consumers ability to get what they want. we will buy more fuel efficient cars, that is for sure, but we will have our cake and eat it too. and that cake will sit in my garage in the form of one bad ass camaro - there might just be an efficient petro sipper sitting in the driveway.
y would any 1 want a v6 Camaro or Challenger, idk what gas is i still drive a v8 in my firebird, deosnt get good milage but i cant drive anything weak liek a v6 or a 4 banger, its just depressing thinking about that.
Hell, if you people think that's bad... I was listening to the news on the radio this morning while in the car, and they spoke about one of the candidates for presidency is thinking about launching an attack on SUVs and trucks in the United States. They said that they would like to make it a national law that in order for you to be able to drive an SUV or truck, your household must first meet "needs" qualifications. Basically this means that if you have no need for a large SUV, you will not be allowed to drive one. I don't know about everyone else... but it is slowly feeling like "our rights" are slowly being taken away from under us...
I can't believe this might actually happen!I dont see how GM can get the Camaro up to 35 mpg's by then.And I am sorry but a 4-cylinder?I don care how good it looks,what the hell is the point of getting the damn car if you cant have fun in it!
And if this is true damn near all performance cars(Camaro,Mustang,Challenger,Etc.)will be wipped off the face of the earth.All of us car guys are going to either depend on keeping our current cars running for the rest of time or get a f*$#*!g toyota!So I really dont know about Camaro,But I am with some of you guys,Camaro...DEAD.
@herooftheday...I'm pretty sure that was obama. Didn't hear him say anything about a law but i know he was talking about how america makes up only 3% of the world population and we use up 19% of the energy and how we drive our suv's and have gas on in our homes and this and that and gosh he's just anti-american. Way too liberal. Way too polished off. owerhioearfawieo blah. Just don't vote for him.
The supply and demand concept should be applied to this. We've been anticipating just to even see what the production would look like yet alone when it will be released. There are still plentyyy of people that would consider purchasing this car, regardless of gas prices. So what i'm saying is, just produce some of the camaros and see how sales go. More can be made. I'm sure demand will go up even more.
Also, if you don't know your history...it tends to repeat itself. What is happening now has happened before. Face it, we are at war, inflation is occuring...this happened in the 40's. In the 70's minimum wage went up....so did everything else. When Jimmy Carter was president, interest rates were uppp. Foreclosures are happening (for several reasons,) but one of that being was due to interest rates going up. Not positive of how the gas situation will end up. But i mean we are voting for a new president soon, and i'm sure there will be some new changes under a different administration. Illinois has a line of bozos running the state omg nvm im not going to get into it.
Basically, rather then them talking about how bad things will be months from now, why not talk about how they can change it. It's not going to be like this forever.
anyway, sorry to make this long but i think we are just going through what we went through before. We will eventually get out of it. Maybe it may be a bad time to make a big release like this. But anything can change by the time september rolls around. They should just have a percentage of the cars go through to production...at least.
The Camaro will hopefully not be a flop with the new CAFE laws and gas prices. What he failed to mention is that the company's average gas mileage has to be 35mpg, not all cars have to have 35mpg average. So the Camaro getting close to 30 on the highway is really good if you ask me, especially since if the 4 cyl cars (nonhybrid) are only getting 35-40mpg highway. I would like to see the 6 cyl but no 4cyl, it doesn't belong in the car. Chevy needs the 6 cyl models to make a profit off of the car and to keep the name alive. But anyways whoever wrote the article needs to look at this issue more deeply.
so does this mean that the Vette is going away too since it doesnt get the gas milage either? that dude needs to go suck another c@ck. GM would loose way more money and be in 100x worse shape if they didnt bring back the Camaro.
muscle car history is going to repeat itself.. low horsepower and horrible sales. 
@Frost: last time i checked, the mustang never went on hiatus.. zing.
When all other cars start resulting in low horsepower and horrible sales... since history is repeating itself...
Dodge Aspen R/T!
gee sure is a grim reality, might as well strap our aveos with superchargers and still get 28 mpg
I understand that there is a market for the Camaro. Unfortunately I don't think it's large enough to sustain the production of it. I'm seeing more and more small vehicles on the road. Less displacement, better gas mileage, etc. A close friend owns a used car lot, and he told me that small econoboxes that were going for $500-$700 at auction are now fetching $1500-$1700. The impact of fuel costs is very real to everyone.
Also the auto industry is doing poorly right now regardless of models. People are struggling (and losing) to pay their mortgages, new cars just don't get high priority. The only car I see selling is those godforsaken Prius'.
I guess the first year will determine whether the Camaro will continue. We'll see how nostalgic the people are about Chevrolet.......
Wow, alot of people seem to be in denial. The pinto and the chevette are on their way back, like it or not. The only way i'm going to be able to justify buying one is if it's fitted with a blown ls3 or with an electric drivetrain doing 0-60 in under 4 secs.
fuck yo pinto.
or we can just leave that to the guy in the above article...
Peronally, I see a difference between the type of person who drives a Camaro/Firebird/Challenger/Corvette/etc and the type of person who drives a Prius/Aveo/etc, and the difference that I notice is that the people that drive the more fuel efficient cars only drive to get somewhere, and, generally, people that "induldge" (if you will..) in a car with a v8 don't just drive to get somewhere, we enjoy our vehicles and enjoy driving them. People that love having a powerhouse to drive, will continue to buy them, modify them, make them more powerful and, more often than not, make them less fuel-efficient in the meantime. That's what we do. I'm ecstatic about the new Camaro, and even more excited about the possibility of a new Firebird. Let the people that drive to get from point A to point B drive their hybrids, that way they can compensate for the rest of us that will continue to drive a v8.
I actually just bought a zx2 last week, and every time I tell someone that I bought it, their FIRST responce is "yeah, that will be better on gas." I didn't get it because I wanted something better on gas, I bought it because I don't want to use my Trans Am as a DD anymore, and I plan on keeping it in the garage, doing some mods, and bringing it out when I want to have some fun, and I plan on keeping it for a very long time. I would have still bought the zx2 if gas was $1 a gallon.
My dad and I had this same conversation last week, he drives a '91 Suburban with a 350... it's practically a bus, and even though it costs him well over $100 to fill it up, he's not willing to give up a vehicle he enjoys, and that is exactly my outlook.
You better believe I'll be 60 years old and still driving a v8.
well. I personally don't think that Chevy will kill the Camaro. their are to many fans/customers and people in general who want the 09, Including myself. seriousely look at what the Mustang did for Ford. don't know if the challenger will do the same, as i'm not a mopar fan, but it does look sweet. we as Americans are Resilient when it comes to getting what we want regardless of what it COSTS. and I know their are hard times for some but not all, it's just the way it is. Eric- next time your out cruising, just take a look at how many car shows are being held, or how many CAR enthusiests are out showing their pride and joy. and some how THEY have put gas in the tank inorder to do what they enjoy. Hell, Eroupe has $7 a gallon, and they drive Beamers-Lambos-Ferrare etc.... yes it sucks that gas is currently at $4 and above. But we are Americans and we will Prevail
This is a classic example of government getting in the way of market place driven elements. As it's already been stated, there are plenty of vehicles that get 35+ MPG and easily affordable. The reason people don't buy them in packs is cause...
Well, they don't want them!
Let the market drive the fuel standards. If people want more fuel efficient vehicles then they will stop buying gas sucking sports cars...sales will fall and the auto makers will have no choice but to make their sports cars better. This is basic supply and demand, not rocket science.
Yet, the government and congress seem to feel they know best. While cars might get better fuel economy, the extra R&D costs will be passed onto the buyer meaning the cost of the car will raise faster than inflation.
I have no doubt there is a serious buyer base for the new Camero. People buy sports cars, SUVs and trucks because they want to. Nobody holds a gun to your head and makes you buy a car that's bad on gas.
There are other morons who feel gas should be taxed to lower its usage just like the tax on tobacco. Anytime the government wants to curb gas buying they raise taxes. Last I checked, plenty of people still smoke but they just have to give up other things to get money for those $5 packs.
People need transportation to get places...plain and simple. I need to drive to work and if that means paying $6, $7, $10 a gallon I have to do it. I can't bike 20 miles to work in 120 degree Phoenix Arizona heat...no one can. Plus, the cost of gas going up means city and state vehicles cost more to fuel which means MORE taxes for us on top of the high fuel cost etc. etc.
What will happen is the aftermarket will grow and people will be keeping their older cars much longer. Buy a Camero with a V6 but an aftermarket company will make a swapable V8 for it. One way or another the market will find a way to fill the gap in demand.
@cobaltcamaro: because they are made overseas, our laws don't apply to theirs.
"because they are made overseas, our laws don't apply to theirs."
Yeah, and I think rather than spend all this time screwing us V8 fanatics over, the legislators should get off their lazy asses and get some smart scientists and develop a new fuel source that can be pumped into older V8s (and modern V8s) without much power loss. It's feasible, I'd say ethanol can probably fit the bill with some tweaking. But the most idiotic thing is how people think the Camaro, Challenger, and Mustang are "doomed." They are not. Nor will they ever truly be, as long as there is crack to buy, crackheads will buy it. But more along my point is how the regulations don't touch the really gas guzzling cars. Ferrari is one of the least "green" of any automaker, according to the EPA's fuel economy website (www.fueleconomy.gov) no 2008 Ferrari model offers better than 16 mpg HIGHWAY. Yet no one worries about Ferrari's future, same with the other "high-end" automakers, I mean, hell, the Rolls-Royce Phantom (which weighs 7000 lbs, a f***ing pig) gets 11/18, and Ferrari's F430 (their most fuel efficient) gets 11/16, with two less cylinders, less HP, and a lot less weight. It's just ridiculous to think that three cars that will likely get 20+ mpg highway while being fun to drive will be axed, especially not with all the marketing Dodge and GM are doing, if nothing else, they will sell it to recoup some of that marketing money. But again I digress (ADD will do that
) from the way the government tries to control how the fuel goes. I personally don't care much about gas mileage, I want torque. I want speed. I want my car to be fun. I've never had fun in an econo-box. There are plenty of people like me, who will not care about getting 35 mpg on the highway, and I know that there are people who complain about gas in their lumbering SUVs, and they don't need the SUV, and again, like has been said, no one forces you to buy the SUV, and you shouldn't whine if you chose it. Fuel economy is not for us performance folk. I've made posts about this on most of the forums I'm on, and I feel very strongly about it, and I hear a lot of "We need more fuel efficient cars." I say we need a replacement for gas that's renewable, can be used in internal combustion engines, and is easy to make, and cheap. Ethanol comes to mind, I know internal combustion cars can run on ethanol, and I also know it hurts their fuel economy and power a bit, but in the long run it's cleaner, and I bet there's someone out there who can refine ethanol so that it meets the needs of us gearheads, I know I will never own a car solely for gas mileage, because I want to enjoy driving. I say the government needs to get its head out of its butt and work on viable alternatives to gas so that we can burn cleaner but still burn rubber.
Correction: The Rolls-Royce Phantom weighs 5577 lbs (I put 7000 as a place holder while I looked up the curb weight and hit "post comment" instead of "edit comment." For the sake of comparison the F430 weighs 3197 lbs. The Phantom makes 453 hp from its 6.8L V12. The F430 makes 480 from it's 4.3L V8. So the Phantom is heavier, makes less power, and displaces more ci/air. Yet it matches the F430 for city mileage and beats it by 2mpg on the highway. Yet the Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger are so "terrible" on gas? My fat hairy arse they are.
@Yelcamino: I agree 100% People will buy gas no matter what. I really dont think anyone on this site is worried about not getting 35mpg. Who could stomach driving one of those 35mpg turd cars anyway? I would much rather pay more for gas and look good doing it!
There might be a little bit of fear on the all of the companies, but they know that people are going to buy it if they really want it. People will find a way to get what they really want. I am still going to get the G8 next year no matter what the gas prices are. People still spend the money to make their cars faster, and with worse gas mileage.
First of all....its the 2010 Camaro, not 2009. Second, I'm not buying it for its fuel economy, and third, it will just be more valuable down the road if they have low production and it gets cancelled.
Now if it gets cacelled before production starts, then thats completely different. I guess I'll have to get a Corvette instead. It can handle the 35mpg with a V-8.
If we took a few tankbusters and make Iraq a parking lot to start with, put up a us flag and took the sand peoples petroleum. We would'nt have these problems.
Anyone who is affected by gas prices has no business EVER buying a new car.
Anyone shelling out $25,000-$30,000 for a new V8 Camaro could afford to fill it at $10 a gallon, unless they are a complete dumb-ass and spending as much or more on a car than they make in one year.
This article is dumb as hell. Like the Mustang, most Camaros sold will be v6 Camaros. GM can easily tweak it by 2012 to meet standards. The v8 models won't have to.
Guess this also means the end of the RX series as even at 1.3L it gets worse Gas Mileage the the LSx Series Motors.
Watch this disappear but first lets revisit history:
Hybrid Vehicles by 2005 set by Bill Clinton, Squashed as soon as Bush got into Office.
I have no problem seeing the same here, when the impracticality comes into play then problems arise however with E85 and other gasses becoming more available (Esp with the building of an E85 Refinery in AZ for those of us here) I am sure those exceptions will come in.
However lets look at the other side of the ball:
When the Mustang was going to be dropped because of the gas fears in the 80's what happened? A public out cry of so many that they dropped that idea faster then a fat kid can find cake at a birthday party.
Then we have when the Camaro and Firebird actually left the scene, the new Camaro Buzz started then and has not changed. Your enthusiasts will not let it die. They never have and unlike every other automotive scene out there the aftermarket and enthusiasts crowds for the Mustang and the Camaro/Firebird are bigger then any other on the planet. (Aka see parts for aftermarket exists with every new model BEFORE the cars are even on the street where as with everything else they are released and then shortly there after for some and longer for other the mods start to appear).
And lastly, making a blog of quoting someone else's article.... yeah I would call Douche Bag if I did not already know you were calling a Girl who rejected you an idiot because she refused to go out with a fat tub of lard like you and then you tell others her boy friend is an ass who is only after sex... yeah again talking about people you don't know transfers to you talking about issues you do not know about.
You run your mouth more then a women in a hair saloon but the problem is you can not even put hood struts in your car someone else had to while you went inside because your an idiot. Or talking about others issues when you knew nothing about it and then making excuses never apologizing. That's you, that's why everyone who meets you sees your an idiot and your true friends list has next to nothing on it. Being self centered and big mouthed leads to a lonely life!
So back out of the Scene your not an enthusiast.
Just wait and see what happens after this investigation into the investors in Gas Prices comes out. Esp when they start tracing said money to sources... exactly.
And just in case someone did not notice my comment was not directed at Epic but a person within here and that person knows when he reads it who he quoted etc.
I could see a few confusing my comment as being directed at Epic and not at who it was meant for.
and that its not all cars must meet 35mpg its i believe 80 % of the fleet cars must be at 35mpg. soo thats prob why they ditched the rwd impala, soo they can make room for the camaro, vette.
and with gas increasing we are still using it. i konw i dont care what the price is, im going to use it for my camaro. or for my trucks at work or for my lawn mowers(im a landscaper). soo i just deal with it. it wont keep me away from doing something i always wanted to, and that is buy a brand new camaro
I'm glad I have my T/A. Ain't gettin rid of it and don't plan on buying another car in my life time unless it's a beater for back and forth to work stuff.